Friday, February 23, 2007

Let's not confuse the issue with facts.

It seems that the US intelligence *cough* information about Iran is wrong. Read here. There is even a hint that data that is there is planted.

Can hardly even be bothered to think 'What a surprise!'

Won't stop the build up in the US not the escalation in the UN but I think our lot might have a bit of an issue joining in this time. This reports won't be the cause of that it's just that the May elections are coming up and this means our politicians are finally getting a bit of spine. A bit like a trapped rat rather than someone who stands up for something like Abdel Kareem Soliman though.


At 3:58 pm, Blogger Jay.Mac said...

The article goes on after the "misleading" intelligence to catalogue Iran's failures to meet international requirements- and then includes this-

"One of the "outstanding issues" listed in yesterday's report involves a 15-page document that appears to have been handed to IAEA inspectors by mistake in October 2005. That document roughly describes how to make hemispheres of enriched uranium, for which the only known use is in nuclear warheads. Iran has yet to present a satisfactory explanation of how and why it has the document."

Not to mention the numerous threats Iran has made about obliterating a certain country.

Is the time to act before or after we know they have a nuclear weapon? And how many millions will die when that does happen?

At 9:27 pm, Blogger Bag said...

I bet every country on the planet has the technicalk now how to make a nuke. Schools in the US have the knowledge but it becomes a big deal for this to be found because we want to make it so.

Countries make threats all the time to other countries. What has it to do with us. Israel can defend itself. In fact if our MSM didn't get all het up because the Israelis killed some civilians that the terrorists are putting in harms way we might has seen some of the problems go away. We cause a lot of the issues in Israel by forcing them to concede ground when it is never going to be enough. Eventually it will hit home to our politicians and Israel will take back a lot of the lost ground without us whinging about casualties. let's get our press out of there.

The nuke threat is a problem. However the NPT was set up with rules in mind. We don't follow them and it appears that someone is but because we don't like it we want to ignore the rules. Personally I think that because we have screwed up Iraq we can't do the same in Iran unless we are 100% sure. Sadly I think we will get attacked soon but we will will have to ride it out. Then we can retaliate by turning that entire country into glass. Leave nothing standing so nobody will ever consider this an option again. We should say that now and prepare for it. Stopping Iran from developing nuclear power is wrong. If they break the rules and/or attack anyone we should retaliate so forcefully that nobody would want to do that again.

At 1:37 am, Blogger Jay.Mac said...

"Personally I think that because we have screwed up Iraq we can't do the same in Iran unless we are 100% sure."

That's the problem- the intelligence on Iraq was believed by Britain, France, Russia, the UN- even Jordan and Egypt thought that Saddam had a fully functioning WMD program; because that's what they were told by the Iraqi regime. If we hadn't acted and Saddam had slipped a chem/bio-weapon to terrorists or even a nuke (remember the documents captured from the regime that showed they were about a year from a nuclear weapon)- then Bush and Blair would be taking heat now for NOT acting. We'd be demanding that they be impeached because they ignored the obvious intelligence.

What are leaders supposed to do when all the information suggests that there are WMDs? Wait until they're used cannot be the answer. I don't want thousands or possibly millions of people to die in a nuclear conflagration simply because some people don't think the intelligence is strong enough- for most of the anti-war crowd, there can never be enough. Iran could openly declare they have nuclear tipped missiles- but you know that some liberals will argue that we can't do anything about it because they might never use them.

Iran has threatened to wipe Israel off the map- and they've threatened to turn the region into "burning hell", to "take the Gulf away forever"- and they've constantly refused to abide by any of the UN rules that are supposed to govern the world.

If Saddam had abided by the treaty he signed- and if he had let the world community do its job, he'd still be in power. Seems to me that Iran has the same option now- obey the world rules or face the consequences.

I'm not happy with the thought that we should wait until thousands upon thousands of people have been murdered to be "sure" that something needs to be done. Iran has a long history of supporting terrorism, terrorism that is aimed squarely at civilians- the nukes they develop might be aimed at Israel or they could be in the back of a van in central London or in a boat in New York harbour; I want them stopped before that happens.

At 1:15 am, Blogger Bag said...

I'm of the view that we knew there was no WMD. That's why we had to sex up the dossier because we did not really know but wanted to go to war anyway. It's a bit like a copper planting something on a suspect because he knows it is him but has no evidence. Lack of evidence that could be because he is in fact not guilty.

Also Iran is not the only one who doesn't abide by the rules set up to govern the world. If I remember the US and Israel seem to come top of that list.

You are right about the Liberals they could watch someone pull the trigger and shoot someone and still say it was not their fault. They have big mouths but if the evidence was there then the government could do thier thing and most would be happy. We are not happy now because there was no evidence. It was lies and can clearly be seen that way now.

I've always followed the belief that if you can't discuss things then there is something wrong. Blair bullied everyone into going to war based on secret evidence which he couldn't disclose. It wasn't he couldn't because of, it was couldn't because there was not any and he knew it would not stand up to scrutiny.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not on Irans side they are dangerous but I don't think we can go around throwing our weight around as Robin to the US's Batman. For one thing we just can't handle any meaningful retaliation. The MoD is not funded or geared up for continual fighting. We are also closer than the US in physical terms. Our coastline is porous and we have a significant number of disgruntled people in here aleady we cannot control.

Sadly, I'm of the view that Iran is being reasonable on paper. They are following the rules of the NPT they signed up too. The US and UK don't follow it. Therefore we have to trust them. It doesn't mean we can't watch them. It doesn't mean we can't inspect them. But the other difference I have with our politicians is that we need to tell anyone that if they attack someone we turn their entire country into glass. No mercy. No discussions with the UN. Crime and Punishment. Of course we won't do that. We would rather initiate another war based on guesses and the fears of warmongering politicians.

I don't want thousands to die for nothing yet that is what we are proposing to stop thousands dying for nothing. Only we can ensure this way that it is not us losing thousands by offering up thousands of other people who may or may not be interested in killing us. Therefore making them hate us and having a good reason too. Makes no sense to me.


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